FS FORCE

Posted: **Wed Dec 31, 2003 3:17 pm**

HI,

Sorry, I didn't found the time to be an active beta tester.

I have tried FS FORCE yesterday, I love it but I have programmed my joystick buttons via FSUIPC. I use button 3 and 4 for trimming pitch AND setting propeller pitch AND regulating Mixture AND ... but on all button combinaitions with button 3 or 4 the trim function of FS FORCE is activated, which is really pity. In stead of checking buttons is it not better to check which function is executed (via FSUIPC ?) than checking the joystick buttons? On the moment I can't use FS FORCE, which I regret very much.

Surely it is a very clever and valuable addon for FS and many simmers will appreciate it very much.

Regards and happy NewYear.

hm

Posted: **Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:51 pm**

So you have several functions programmed off the same key press..? Why would you do that? And how do you separate the desired function using FSUIPC? How does your computer decide whether you are trying to adjust mixture, prop or trim? Are you using Shift and Ctrl as sub-identifiers?

As for the FSForce issue, I have experimented and the FSforce trim needs to be on a standalone keypress. So allocate trim to another pair of buttons, or remove it from the joystick altogether and just have it on the keypad or keyboard.

Posted: **Wed Dec 31, 2003 11:42 pm**

hm wrote:I use button 3 and 4 for trimming pitch AND setting propeller pitch AND regulating Mixture AND

To echo Simon's question, how can two buttons do all those things? In any case, just assign trim to a different set of buttons, or use the keyboard.

hm wrote:In stead of checking buttons is it not better to check which function is executed (via FSUIPC ?) than checking the joystick buttons?

That wouldn't work because in order for the FS Force trim system to work we have to disable the MSFS trim system, so FSUIPC would not be able to report anything.

Regards,

Posted: **Thu Jan 01, 2004 3:05 am**

Hi,

Well, it is true, nobody seems to read a manual, unless there are troubles

I was preparing a document regarding the programming of joystick buttons on the request of Pete Dowson. You can download a preliminary and far from complete version here

http://users.pandora.be/desi-iii/ButtonFsuipc.pdf

hm.

Posted: **Sat Jan 03, 2004 3:44 am**

...you've messed with EVERY keyboard and joystick setting in FS, and now expect the FS Force software to work for you as well..?

Madness. Ingenious madness; machiavellian madness. But madness nonetheless.

You have to re-map EVERY single key press to some arcane combination of buttons on the stick to get even close to the basic combinations of keypresses in FS, and that's before you start getting `clever` with the advanced key options! All that, and then devise a new spreadsheet detailing the relative stick combinations available, AND a way of measuring the effectiveness of every press, in order to ensure you haven't inadvertently pressed the 7 `up` when the 8 should be `down` or whatever. Then ensure that any add-ons you might use don't conflict in any way with your chosen keypresses, and devise different combinations for them, too if necessary. Crazed genius, my boy!

For myself, I'd have a little 2-way clamp bought from the local DIY store to hold the keyboard at an appropriate angle off the desk, or built a little shelf for the Monitor and put the keyboard underneath... but don't let my simple and easy solution shy you away from re-programming of Cray proportions to save you the hassle of pressing buttons on the board by, well, pressing more buttons in strange and nefarious combination on the stick!!!

I foresee a career for you in government administration!

...but as for FS Force, you really have to have two modes of trim - the default mode (best allocated to keyboard commands) and the actual FS Force trim mode, which is a`force multiplier` NOT control surface command and is best programmed to joystick. I suppose you'll need another seet of key combos to program that successfully, but I don't think FS Force has latent recognitions for the equivalent of Ctrl+ and Alt+ or SHift+ on a joystick command does it Russ?

Posted: **Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:56 am**

Snave wrote:I don't think FS Force has latent recognitions for the equivalent of Ctrl+ and Alt+ or SHift+ on a joystick command does it Russ?

No, the keyboard and joystick work as separate entities

Posted: **Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:39 pm**

Dear Mr. Evans,

I try to reply to you on an adult manner, next time I hope you do the same:

...you've messed with EVERY keyboard and joystick setting in FS, and now expect the FS Force software to work for you as well..?

I didn't change a single default keyboard command, those are still valid. About the joystick buttons, see the table below.

Madness. Ingenious madness; machiavellian madness. But madness nonetheless.

Thausends of PLC programmers are doing this "madness" every day, day in day out. You are surely not a programmer.

You have to re-map EVERY single key press to some arcane combination of buttons on the stick to get even close to the basic combinations of keypresses in FS, and that's before you start getting `clever` with the advanced key options! All that, and then devise a new spreadsheet detailing the relative stick combinations available, AND a way of measuring the effectiveness of every press, in order to ensure you haven't inadvertently pressed the 7 `up` when the 8 should be `down` or whatever. Then ensure that any add-ons you might use don't conflict in any way with your chosen keypresses, and devise different combinations for them, too if necessary. Crazed genius, my boy!

Do you find the programming of the radio and navigation apparatus in FS via the keyboard clever? Did you look at the "FSUIPC for Advanced Users.doc". In my opinion you looked only to the title, otherwise it would be impossible that you would have written the above.

For myself, I'd have a little 2-way clamp bought from the local DIY store to hold the keyboard at an appropriate angle off the desk, or built a little shelf for the Monitor and put the keyboard underneath... but don't let my simple and easy solution shy you away from re-programming of Cray proportions to save you the hassle of pressing buttons on the board by, well, pressing more buttons in strange and nefarious combination on the stick!!!

That's the true solution of a genius

. I am wearing reading glasses, so forget your solution!

Well here is a comparison for you, who loves the keyboard juggling of FS so much:

Code: Select all

...................... Default ............ Programmed

Breaks ............... Button 1 ........... Button 1  
Cycle views + ........ Button 2 ........... Button 8+5
Cycle views - ........ Shift-S ............ Button 8+6
Elevator trim up ..... Button 3 ........... Button 3
Elevator trim down ... Button 4 ........... Button 4
Extend flaps ......... Button 5 ........... Button 5
Retract flaps ........ Button 6 ........... Button 6
Kneeboard ............ Button 7 ........... ---
Gear Up/down ......... Button 8 ........... Button 2
Prop. pitch/speed - .. CTRL+F2 ............ Button 8+3
Prop. pitch/speed + .. CTRL+F3 ............ Button 8+4 
Mixture - .............CTRL+SHIFT+F2 ...... Button 7+3
Mixture + ............ CTRL+SHIFT+F3 ...... Button 7+4

Wooow! What a difference between the default assignment and the programmed version! One command is changed of joystick button (gear), one is deleted (the one I never used). BTW you also could use the keypad 9 or keypad 3 button instead of F2 and F3. With F2 and F3 you need long fingers; with the 9 and 3 key, both hands, but thanks to FS-FORCE we can now let the joystick loose for a short moment, thanks Russel!) Do you think that you can learn the table on the left faster than the one on the right ?

I foresee a career for you in government administration!

Don't get personnal, it shows your immaturity.

hm

Posted: **Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:57 pm**

..that I did try and answer in a mature fashion, but obviously all your hard work has eroded your sense of humour. Or, for all your programming expertise, you don't understand the first thing about emoticons, else you would have realised that I was gently chiding your choice, whilst still proffering suggestions.

I understand better than most (and better than you) the inherent capabilities of FSUIPC. The advanced key programming functions are there as an integral part of the mapping capabilities for Project Magenta and Go-Flight equipment, amongst other things. If you wish to utilise that functionality in a different direction nothing prevents you doing as you have done, but I still think your efforts are vaguely unnecessary when all you need is to apply some lateral thought to the problem... and now you have run into an unforeseen difficulty with your cleverness I hope it gives pause to consider how many others might lie around the corner, I wonder?

I can see at least one other major problem waiting for you. I wonder whether you can guess what it is before it trips up your plans? (and that's a clue)

Anyway, you will see that, having got to the root of your problem, you have your solution. So all's well that end's well...

Posted: **Sat Jan 03, 2004 11:48 pm**

Well, your reply didn't look very humorous to me; maybe I don't understand the subtile underlying meaning of English sentences not well

Do I have difficulties with the programming? Of course I have, some can't be solved, not because the programming is wrong, but because internal commands aren't always accepted by the different airplanes. 65880 and 65879 (Heading bug) are well accepted by the SF260 but not by the CS727. Otherwise I can now solve some discrepancies in commands between airplanes like mapping the "wing unfold/fold" and "tail hook up/down" to the same button for releasing the drag chute by the CS Mig21 and F104.

It isn't my goal to make an universal program, I only want to show that you can do more with the joystick buttons, but you need to know some PLC tricks.

I can see at least one other major problem waiting for you. I wonder whether you can guess what it is before it trips up your plans? (and that's a clue)

???, you made me curious, probably I am not that clever. (an emoticon, but which one ?)

hm

FS FORCE

FSUIPC button programming and FS Force

FSUIPC button programming and FS Force

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Re: FSUIPC button programming and FS Force

So basically...

Re: So basically...

You will see