Trim sensitivity

KelB · Post by **KelB** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:05 pm

Hi

I have been using FS-force for a while now and am very pleased with it. I use the throttle axis (slider) of my joystick for the trim control which works very well. I recently however bought a new aircraft which is unusually sensitive to the elevator control. I have recuced the sensitivity of the joystick for normal operation but am having difficulty reducing the sensitivity of the trim system in the air.

I have edited the config file to change the TrimClickAmount value but this seems to have no effect. I imagine this is because I am using a slider type control and the TrimClickAmount only operates for switch type inputs.

Is there any way I can control the range of adjustment the trimwheel gives or is this fixed in your program?

Regards

Kelvin

Post by **RussDirks** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:07 am

You're right about TrimClickAmount - that only applies when you are using buttons.

The FS Force trim system operates independent of the particular aircraft you are flying. Ie. if you are flying "out-of-trim", what you experience is that you have to exert a certain amount of force to mainain the joystick in the desired position. When you adjust trim, that force is reduced by a fixed amount for each corresponding movement of the slider (or button press). It is not at all affected by the airplane you are flying.

You say you want to "reduce the sensitivity of the trim system in the air." Can you explain more fully the negative affect you are trying to eliminate?

Also, as a check, when you are in the air and you make trim changes, verify that the trim wheel on the aircraft control panel does NOT move. If it does, something is not configured properly.

KelB · Post by **KelB** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:05 am

I can confirm that the trim wheel on the aircraft control panel does NOT move and I see the trim value in the bottom right of the screen changing OK. in all of my (many) other aircraft the system works pretty well.

In this particular aircraft it requires very little movement of the joystick to change from quite a high positive rate of climb to quite a high negative one so a very precise trim value is required to get level flight.

The very short travel of the throttle lever on the MS Sidewinder joystick means that the trim steps are fairly big and on this aircraft make it difficult to get a setting that exactly trims out the smaller than usual joystick force.

I find that the overall trim range from the control is actually larger than is necessary for covering the normal range of climb and descent rates so I was trying to ascertain whether I could reduce the overall adjustment range in order to increase the resolution.

I am actually considering purchasing the Saitek trim wheel so that I will have the benefit of its 9 revolutions to get very fine trim resolution. (Not just because of this one aircraft - I think the Saitek unit would be more realistic than using the throttle slider).

Thanks for your very prompt reply and thanks again for a great product.

Post by **RussDirks** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:07 am

I did a little experiment with the MSFF2 joystick : the slider reports values to my program from -32k to +32K, but by moving the slider by the smallest possible amount I found that values jump in increments of 520, which means there are only 123 unique possible trim values using the slider. Compare that to a TrimClickAmount of 100, which gives you 200 possible unique trim values, using the buttons. Bottom line : the slider does not give you very fine control of trim. Combine that with an aircraft that is overly sensitive in pitch, and you're probably better off using buttons, or as you mentioned, getting a trim wheel.

Speaking of aircraft sensitive in the pitch axis, what I've done in the past is modify the elevator_effectiveness and pitch_stability settings in the .cfg file to dial things down a bit. You might want to give that a try.

KelB · Post by **KelB** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:08 pm

Thanks very much for confirming what I thought.

I have ordered the Saitek trim wheel based on your measurments.

I will also try editiing the elevator_effectiveness and pitch_stability settings in the .cfg file as you suggest.

Thanks again for the 1st class support for a 1st class product

Regards

Kelvin

KelB · Post by **KelB** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:39 pm

Just to say I have now got the Trim Wheel and it is extremely good. Very smooth with high resolution, very well made and easy to use. Comes with software but you don't actually need it (with Windows 7 anyway) system recongises it and insatlls automatically.

LogJammer · Post by **LogJammer** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:49 am

KelB wrote:Just to say I have now got the Trim Wheel and it is extremely good. Very smooth with high resolution, very well made and easy to use. Comes with software but you don't actually need it (with Windows 7 anyway) system recongises it and insatlls automatically.

You have the Pro Flight Cessna Trim Wheel, right?

If so, how did you configure it with the fsforce.cfg? Was it TrimWheel=Joystick:<num>:Trim or another axis.

The reason I ask is FSX reports the trim wheel as Trim and FSUIPC reports it as X axis and I can't get it to properly map in the cfg. I got the buttons on my FFB stick to work, but are the two devices mutually exclusive?

Thanks.

Justin

Post by **RussDirks** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:48 pm

Justin,

First determine what number device your trim wheel is. Just observe what order it appears in Control Panel / Game Devices, and remember that the numbering starts from zero.

Next determine what axis. Go into FSX / Controls / Control Axes, click on any line, and click on "Change Assignment". Move the trim wheel a bit and observe what appears on the screen. It will either show up as a Slide or one of the axis values. Click Cancel.

Assuming you trim wheel is the second device, and FSUIPC says it is the x asix, you probably want an entry like this (but verify using above technique) :

TrimWheel=Joystick:1:XAxis

LogJammer · Post by **LogJammer** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:34 pm

Russ,

Thanks for the help. I will try that when I get back home today. One question, FSX reports the trim wheel movement as "Trim" but FSUIPC reports it as the X-axis. I will try both.

Thanks again.

Post by **RussDirks** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:09 pm

Well, if you check the documentation, you'll see that "trim" is not a valid entry, so I wouldn't bother with that one. The valid entries are : Slider, XAxis, YAxis, ZAxis, RxAxis, RyAxis, or RzAxis.

LogJammer · Post by **LogJammer** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:26 am

RussDirks wrote:Well, if you check the documentation, you'll see that "trim" is not a valid entry, so I wouldn't bother with that one. The valid entries are : Slider, XAxis, YAxis, ZAxis, RxAxis, RyAxis, or RzAxis.

Well, that would actually require reading the documentation

. But I digress, attached is an image of all the applicable info for my Trim Wheel and I can't get it to work regardless of joystick number or axis name.

Post by **RussDirks** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:05 am

Well, based on those screenshots, I would say you should be using:

TrimWheel=Joystick:2:XAxis

Although I'm a little puzzled by FSX reporting the axis as "Trim". Maybe that's a special terminology unique to FSX.

LogJammer · Post by **LogJammer** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:25 am

Well, I swore I tried that combo, but will try again. Can two joystick devices be used to control trim. Say, I want to use the wheel for small airplanes and use the buttons for other planes (or convenience)?

Thanks again.

Post by **RussDirks** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:11 am

LogJammer wrote:Can two joystick devices be used to control trim. Say, I want to use the wheel for small airplanes and use the buttons for other planes (or convenience)?

I don't see why that shouldn't work.

LogJammer · Post by **LogJammer** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:45 pm

Well, I gave it the old college try, and it didn't work, so I am going to try and use the throttle axis on the joystick to see if I can have the buttons and throttle both usable at any given time.

I appreciate the effort, and will report my findings. I just hope this helps others that may want to do the same thing.

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