Some questions about trim and the product in general...

[gtswanny]

Hi Russ,

I have been following this product for a while. I did the trial and was a little dissapointed in how long it lasted. It didn't last for 10 flights as I expected. How are you defining a "flight"?. I got 4 sessions out of FS9 before your product expired. Once it expired it caused a lot of problems in FS9 until I uninstalled it and figured some things out. Needless to say your demo didn't leave me feeling warm and fuzzy after it shut itself down.

Having gotten my complaints out of the way.... I will say that it is a great product and it overcomes the tremendous lack of aircraft designers putting in FF. I will say that the guys who designed the Flight 1 Piper Meridian actually did figure it out. Try banking in that thing while climbing or cruising.

Your product made a HUGE difference when flying my Flight 1 Cessna 152. You stabalized the joystick like MS couldn't do. To me that is the strength of your product. I am a student pilot who is intimately familiar with the 152 right now. Your product helps make the Flight1 152 much more realistic.

I can't fly with your product anymore and I wasn't able to figure out how to work the trim with the big iron. It doesn't make sense to me from what your are explaining. Besides the price (which you have made a good argument for), this is a big problem I have. Do I have to set the MS trim in flight to set the attitude, and then use FS-force to reduce the force induced? For many panels in the freeware market, there is no indication of "take off" that we can set to. There is no indication of trim for that matter. So in the trial period I am left to blindly guess what the settings are. Very frustrating to say the least.

I do believe that this product has promise. It has done somethign that MS couldn't do. As a student pilot and veteran of MSFS, I am sitting on the fence. I want to buy it because it has stablized the joystick for the 152 (and I imagine other smaller planes) which is important to me. However, I didn't get enough chance with the big iron to determine if it was truly a value product for MSFS. I will have to think about this one for a while.

Good luck with it no matter what, it is a good product!

[RussDirks]

I got 4 sessions out of FS9 before your product expired.

Sorry you didn't get the full trial period. That is the first report I've heard of that happening. May have been a glitch of some sort. If you want I can send you a utility that will clean the first trial off your system so you can get another 10 sessions.

As to how the trial works, it is really 10 sessions, not flights. (My product literature needs to be revised to reflect that.) And it ignores sessions under 4 minutes. So if you start FS and then shut it down right away, that won't count.

I will say that the guys who designed the Flight 1 Piper Meridian actually did figure it out. Try banking in that thing while climbing or cruising.

I have the plane myself, but I only just got it recently, and had never thought to try it without FS Force, so I did today. You're right, there is a bit of resistance when banking, but it still has that same annoying (and highly unrealistic) time lag. When you first begin the bank, there is no resistance in the stick ... and then it suddenly kicks in about 1/2 second later?? Completely incomprensible in my mind how MS ever came up with that!!

I wasn't able to figure out how to work the trim with the big iron. It doesn't make sense to me from what your are explaining. Do I have to set the MS trim in flight to set the attitude, and then use FS-force to reduce the force induced?

You've got the second half right. The way to set the attitude (pitch) is simply move the joystick forward or back. Pushing the joystick forward wil move the plane into a nose down pitch attitude, and pulling it back will give you a nose up attitude. (Sorry for stating the obvious, but it sounds like you're trying to over complicate things.) Once you have the plane established in the desired attitude (for climb, cruise, or descend), you then trim away the control forces with the joystick trim buttons. You should never have to adjust the MS trim system, except in two optional situations : prior to take off, and priot to engaging the autopilot.

For many panels in the freeware market, there is no indication of "take off" that we can set to. There is no indication of trim for that matter. So in the trial period I am left to blindly guess what the settings are. Very frustrating to say the least.

In FS, it is not absolutely essential to set the trim prior to take-off. (Of course, in real life it is). Most planes will take off just fine with the trim anywhere in the mid range. And obviously, if a plane does not have a trim indicator, that certainly is not the fault of FS Force!

[RussDirks]

I wasn't able to figure out how to work the trim with the big iron. It doesn't make sense to me from what your are explaining. Do I have to set the MS trim in flight to set the attitude, and then use FS-force to reduce the force induced?

I was thinking a bit more about what you said. I would imagine that you, like many, had developed the habit of making pitch changes in FS by using the trim buttons? I can see where that would cause some confusion when you come to try FS Force. The thing to realize is that in a real airplane, making trim changes has NO affect on pitch.

[gtswanny]

Thanks for the responses Russ. I would like to try it out again simply to test it out more on the big jets.

I am a real world student pilot, and I focused mainly on the 152 and Baron when I was testing. Since I use those a lot right now for practicing my maneuvers and procedures. FsFOrce certainly made a huge difference in my profeciency simply because it stablalized the stick so effectively.

I know that I was not trimming for pitch since I certainly don't do that in real life. Althought it does seem wierd after all this time of using the MSFS trim to center the stick... when in a climb in the 152, once I trim out the force sure enough the stick is held in the back position just like the yoke would be!

The few flights I took in the jets just didn't seem to go as smoothly, especially on approach. It very well could have just been me, but I would like to try again.

One more comment...

Practicing cross wind landings in FS using the 152 is a complete b*** (actually harder than real life) because the non-forces and "looseness" of the FF2. FsForce made a HUGE difference particularly in this area. That alone almost has me sold.

please send me the utility to try it again, thanks!

I will shoot you an email.