Nice program, and a few suggestions

[Eagle]

I think you've made en excelent job on this program, it really adds something to the flying feeling. But honestly, I think the price will make you lose a lot of sales. People have already posted messages at Avsim Forum that they like the add-on but won't buy at this price. Remember that CS F-104 and 727 is only 1,5 lousy dollar more expensive. Add 5 bucks and you get a PMDG 737, and it's more than half the price of FS2004 ...

I don't know how much work you have laid down on this, but I've tried in my mind to compare to the PMDG 737, and must admit that my guess is that it takes more hours to build the 737, but I don't know ...

Please note that this is meant as a friendly advice, maybe reducing the price even could serve you good by increasing sales

In any case, good luck!

Btw, people don't read readme files, so maybe a reminder in the startup of the program would be an idea (like the one you get when you load a plane without a profile)? Just to make sure people turn off forces in fs. If you don't the only difference is the occational (repeating and annoying) ground bumps, the only thing people seems to dislike ...

Best regards!
Eagle

[RussDirks]

I think you've made en excelent job on this program, it really adds something to the flying feeling.

Thanks for the compliment.

But honestly, I think the price will make you lose a lot of sales.

Well, I guess we'll see about that.

People have already posted messages at Avsim Forum that they like the add-on but won't buy at this price.

I'm not going to let myself get all worried about what a few people are saying over at Avsim. Stack them up against all the people who have bought the program so far, and they are way behind!! I don't know what your impression is, but it seems to me like the forums at Avsim are becoming increasingly negative. I rarely go there anymore, and I think I'm not the only one.

Regarding price, I'm a little baffled when people say its too high. There are lots of addons in the $35 dollar price range. I basically set the price according to what I would have been willing to pay if someone else had wrote it. I also took into account originality of concept. I mean, how many 737's are out there, payware, freeware, and even the default ones in the game. And yet you are willing to go pay $39 for yet another one?? Now that I don't understand. For some people, they obviously want lots of buttons and switches that work to make them feel like they're flying a real airplane. Me, I want it to really "FEEL" like I'm flying a real airplane. The feeling of flying is the feeling of the controls in your hand, the resistance, the trim forces, the movements and sensations of being in a plane! The problem is, most simmer have never flown a real airplane, so they might not appreciate how much FS Force brings to the table. But I guess that's just the way it is. Nothing I can do about that.

Another thing is that FS Force adds value to every single aircraft in your "hanger". It affects every single moment you are flying! It completely changes the simulator, in my opinion! I think that makes it tremendously valuable. You buy some 737 or whatever, and the only time you can enjoy it's value is when you're actually flying it.

Btw, people don't read readme files, so maybe a reminder in the startup of the program would be an idea (like the one you get when you load a plane without a profile)? Just to make sure people turn off forces in fs. If you don't the only difference is the occational (repeating and annoying) ground bumps, the only thing people seems to dislike ...

Well, the program actually does have such a detection feature, but it must not be working for some people, because a lot of people are having the same experience you did. I'll have to look into that.

[Eagle]

Ok, I agree to some of your remarks, and never meant that there's anything wrong with the software, on the contrary, its awesome! Even if sales are going well you can't tell what would have happened if the price was 250$ instead of 350$. But then I would have no doubts bying it, I'd just pick up the card right away, and that's where I think you lose a few. It's your decition anyway, I think I'm gonna buy it so in this case you win

About beeng negative: I try not to be, sorry if it doesn't seem that way! There's a lot of good people at the Avsim forum, some people from MAAM had nice comments for your program and I think they, among several others, are worth listening to. I won't let the grumpy ones take over, so I still use Avsim forum ...

And the PMDG 737 isn't just another 737 with a lot of buttons and switches, ask anyone who have it! If this kind of ac is all you fly then may be FS Force is a waste, cause you use the stick for 30 seconds during a well planned flight. It's DIFFERENT from a GA flight, and enjoyable for a different set of reasons than flying a GA or a fighter. But if you, like me, enjoy high end airliners as well as ww2 fighters, jet fighters and Ga's, the FS Force can make a difference.

Since you mentioned the default 737-400 I must say that it's as dull and sloppy as the default stick forces. You fixed the forces, the good people at PMDG fixed the 737, I welcome both of you!

Best regards!
Eagle

[FaxCap]

Even if sales are going well you can't tell what would have happened if the price was 250$ instead of 350$.

I hope you meant $25 & $35?

Since you mentioned the default 737-400 I must say that it's as dull and sloppy as the default stick forces. You fixed the forces, the good people at PMDG fixed the 737, I welcome both of you!

I agree with you here, Eagle!!! I also enjoy more complex aircraft than
the "stock" MS offerings. For me when you add FS Force to the equation
my Simming just took on a whole new life!

I think the single most revealing aircraft was that new P-51D by the
Japanese fellow. It was fun before FS Force but it's a blast now with FS Force.

FaxCap

[Eagle]

I hope you meant $25 & $35?

Sure did!

Do U mean the Shigeru Mustang? I tried it but there's no gauges in vc

But I made a strange FS Force profile for ww2 fighters: 100% on static friction and damping on both elevators and aeleron, and lots of centering at speed above 140 knots. Maybe it's totally unrealistic, but it sure made my old P47D heavyer to fly. Great fun!

[FaxCap]

Do U mean the Shigeru Mustang? I tried it but there's no gauges in vc

I'm on a different pc right now so I can't check but it's the Mustang that
shows all the trophies on the start up screen??


FaxCap

[Snave]

Guess I'd have to agree with Russ - the price is what the price is, and simmers have the option to pay or not. Spread across each and every plane in my FS aircraft menu the pro-rata cost is nothing, and the product is just at the start of its development cycle.

Certainly, I would recommend total disregard for Avsim forum members and their petty comments. Strange how few have come to this, the official forum, and posted those same remarks? And those people are posting in a forum which, by its very nature, shows favour to some developers and scant regard at all for others. Financial associations to tend to cloud the impartiality somewhat, eh..?

I'm still at the start of the learning curve with this product, but it already shows promise at overcoming some of the latent difficulties with incompetent flight modelling, and the ability to enhance still further those that are already ahead of the game - the use of FSForce with the RAS Decathlon and the FSD Porter is a revelation when aerobatics or outlandish manoeuvres are attempted.

I presume the web site will host the new and amended profiles as and when they appear?

[FaxCap]

I presume the web site will host the new and amended profiles as and when they appear?

There is a new Forum called Tips & Tricks. We will be able to share our
profiles there.

FaxCap

[RussDirks]

Hi Simon,

Thanks for your support! It's nice to hear the voice of reason once in a while.

All the best,

[johnP]

Some of the posts on the Fsforce thread at Avsim had me baffled.


Really depressing to read some of them, its getting knocked from some people who have not even tried it???, what.s that about?.

All I can say is I,ve been a Flight simmer since the Sublogic days and this was the first time I wanted to beta test anything.


Fsforce is a winner and its going to get even better ,ohh there
I go with the Hype? again .

all the best
John

[FaxCap]

Some of the posts on the Fsforce thread at Avsim had me baffled.

Really depressing to read some of them, its getting knocked from some people who have not even tried it???, what.s that about?.

I'm the one who started that thread and I was shocked by the one fellow's respounce that's for sure.

You know what I think it's about, John? I think it's the type of copyright
protection Russ chose.

CK

[Eagle]

I'm the one who started this thread, thank you guys for sharing your thoughts! I started this to tell you that I think the price was a bit high. After reading some of the strange posts at Avsim (from people who didn't even manage to set ut this program, how clumsy can one be?), I must say that I wish you at FS Force all luck in your sales! I think I have one or two trips left on the trial, and know for sure I'll never take off without FS Force again! With that in mind the price can't be that wrong after all, maybe I was wrong... The best argument must be that it enhances every single plane in your hangar, that's good value for the money spent!

Happy new year!
Eagle

[spilok]

Russell,
I was one of your lucky beta testers, and I really hope you keep your head up proudly and stay positve. You'll see that most simmers will finally realize what I've been saying on the AVSIM forum and you just reiterated. This is a program that affects every aspect of MSFS as it's running. I also said that for $.10 a day (1 year), the value of the program is tremendous. Especially to think of how it will continually evolve.
Keep your entrepreneural attitude. Many people just want something for nothing or next to nothing. The IDEA of FSFORCE was original. Microsoft and other companies "took their shot" at forces and failed. You succeeded! That alone is worth the price.
Stan

[johnP]

Hi Eagle

In your remaining trial period try a few circuits, the feeling of contact with tarmac at touchdown and sense of speed Fsforce brings is worth the price alone IMO.

Before FSForce landing the 777 or the 747 or any plane really left me cold no feeling of contact with terrafirma.

After a week or so flying with the Beta then reverting back to good old MS FF was very telling.

All the best
John

[RussDirks]

Hey Stan, thanks for the encouaging words. I don't think I've ever seen such an outcry about the price of an addon. It has me quite baffled. I think a lot of people are just parroting what a few negative cronies are saying on the bulletin boards.